dear ones.
rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.
a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.
Hey Shelby
You like made up stories ;-), so you might enjoy this book I'm reading called "The Red Tent". It is a fictionalized telling of the story of Rebecca, Rachel, Leah and Dinah with Dinah as the central character. If women had written the Bible from their point of view and were able to tell their stories of their lives, this is how the story might have went....
Enjoyable read, especially for women who grew up with the Bible stories.
so, i recently finished reading "the god delusion" by richard dawkins.
i read it with a certain amount of hesitation.
after all, i am still recovering from my disappointment at realizing that the wts is not god's organization.
Chalam,
I go out side and I view the world in all its beauty and its ugliness and I think it's pretty cool too.
(Beauty, ugly, and cool, are just personal subjective judgements, I acknowledge).
However, I don't see God's handiwork. I see the forces of the universe in dynamic action culminating in this moment in time that I'm experiencing.
Where those forces originated is not evident and to attribute it to God is just more subjective storytelling.
so, i recently finished reading "the god delusion" by richard dawkins.
i read it with a certain amount of hesitation.
after all, i am still recovering from my disappointment at realizing that the wts is not god's organization.
I don't think Dawkins is straying from the definition of faith that is in common usage. I think you are twisting the definition of faith, Brother Dan, when you say that it is based upon scientific evidence. It could be (as in your faith that the earth will rotate around the sun each day) but it doesn't have to be. The whole premise of Dawkins argument is that theists faith is not based upon any type of credible evidence that is measurable by a scientific (hence rational) methodology. Therefore, it is irrational.
His comments about atrocities committed by religious zealots is intended to prove that belief in God can be and has been a force for justifying tremendous evil and destruction in the world. He provides examples. It's not rocket science to figure out his argument that it is worth taking up the fight against ignorance when this ignorance has been at the core of so much violence in this world.
Here is the dictionary definition of the word "faith" that I pulled out of my new Oxford dictionary. It reflects, common, modern usage of the word and has no bias in this argument.
faith: complete trust, belief, certainty, certitude, confidence, conviction, credence, trust.
Please notice that it says nothing about evidence. There could be evidence but not necessarily.
You also accused Dawkins of intellectual dishonesty because he doesn't acknowledge that theists have an argument. You use the word argument as if it were interchangeable with evidence. One can have an argument and argue until the cows come home. That does not mean your argument is based upon any evidence, any credible evidence, or any scientific evidence. Again that is the entire premise of Dawkins argument, that deists argue without evidence. If you think that is intellectual dishonesty, then you don't know what intellectual dishonesty is.
Falsifying evidence is intellectual dishonesty. Taking credit for others work is intellectual dishonesty. Using logical fallacies in your arguments is intellectual dishonesty. Incidentally, attacking Dawkins character by saying he is out for fame, fortune and influence is an example of this, called "ad hominem" attack. It does absolutely nothing to attack the credibility of his arguments, but deflects attention to his character.
He may very well be egotistical, rude, out for money, power, etc. So what? That doesn't make his arguments any less factual or correct.
i'm a new member here but i have read this forum from about 6 months ago.. i was born in jw, all my family is jw.. one day i decide to make a research about the prophecies because i thought that would help me strengthen my faith.
i always like the prophecies.
i have started my research with jerusalem 607. hit the google page, start to search and whats up?
Welcome faqs 7719!
Many on this site have asked the same questions about the Bible's inspiration as you. Some have come to the conclusion that it is not God's word, others still believe it is. There is no logical reason that we cannot question the Bible's authenticity in the same way we questioned the JW religion. If we decide to "throw it out", along with the religion, that's our choice.
So there, Ding!
email exchange just a minute ago:.
him: "i just wanted to let you know that i never had any intention of causing any harm.
and i apologize for anything that seemed that way.".
Oh, good, I'm not the only one who noticed this guy has gone from socially clueless to deviant sexual predator in a mere 3 pages! Perhaps he is the one who should be running scared! ;-)
email exchange just a minute ago:.
him: "i just wanted to let you know that i never had any intention of causing any harm.
and i apologize for anything that seemed that way.".
White Dove:
I didn't see anywhere in his email where he asked you to have illegal public sex in the park. Did I miss that or are you totally jumping to conclusions here? Accusing people of stuff that is just speculation and then calling them unethical sleazeballs is a little crazy too!
At worst, he's guilty so far of being inconsiderate and a bit controlling and rude in his tone. Reasons enough not to date him. But seriously, lets not turn it into a federal case of harrassment!
a man i met at work (customer) gave me his e-mail address, so i contacted him.. we've been e-mailing for a few days now, and it's time for a first date.. i suggest starbucks.. he insists on the park.. it's 106 degrees!
i suggest starbucks, again because it's too hot to walk in the park.. he says that maybe we should cancel because the heat doesn't bother him.. he said, "i'm a very practical man...maybe you can't handle the heat.".
this is my first phoenix, az summer.
He could have been married and afraid he would run into some he knew in a local starbucks, hence the out of the way park?
Who knows, it's all speculation, but the damning part I think is that when you made known your preference he insisted on his own way and kind of indirectly put you down for your preference.
Even if he is single, totally safe and not expecting sex, those other two things show you what you could expect in a relationship: inconsiderate, passive aggressive and condescending. I'd take dangerous and married over those qualities in a man any day.
i am currently just sick with grief.
i can't believe this is happening to me.
all the jokes i've made about me never "falling out of the truth" and self confidence about my spirituality.
Grandma Jones
We are taught as JW's to take our beliefs very seriously and we must proclaim our beliefs far and wide for all to hear (whether they want to or not!)
We are taught that we cannot just sit there, we must do something! Save the world!
Challenge those beliefs like you have challenged the others. Don't just DO something. Sit there! Sit quietly, breathe deeply. You have changed some of your beliefs. The sky is not falling. The end is not nigh. You don't HAVE to tell anyone anything if you don't want to.
You just changed your mind. You might do so again tomorrow, and again next year. Humans do it all the time, every day, all over the world. No need to make a dramatic announcement to anyone. There is no drama, unless you make it a drama or tell some other JW's who make it a big drama.
Sit with all the changes in your mind, until you are calm and comfortable with them. The more comfortable you are with them, the more calm and comfortable those around you will be.
Later you can ask yourself what you would like to do with this new information you have learned. Tell someone? Why? Will it benefit them? You? Are you sure? What would be the worst case scenario in telling? The best case? Can you live with the consequences of the worst case? No? Then rethink again. When you are sure what you would like to do, if anything at all, then you can act with confidence, from your own choice, not from panic or reaction to the bullying of others.
If you are bursting to talk now, because it would benefit you, then talk to a non-JW as many others have suggested.
Hope this is helpful. Let us know what develops.
Cog
dear ones.
rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.
a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.
The entire Bible is a case of "bros before hos" and that's one of the major problems with it, imo.
some red meat for the anti-science crowd.
no link found between vaccine mercury and autisma new government study adds to the evidence that thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative until recently found in many vaccines, does not increase children's risk of autism.. it shows kids who had been exposed as babies to high levels of the preservative -- through vaccines they received or their mothers received while pregnant -- were no more likely to develop autism, including two distinct subtypes of the condition.. .
"this study should reassure parents about following the recommended immunization schedule," said dr. frank destefano, director of the immunization safety office at the centers for disease control and prevention (cdc) in atlanta, and the study's senior author.. .
Welcome, to the board nolongerwaiting.
Great first post. You completely got to the core of the issue and nailed it, which is pretty impressive for your first post.
I agree with you about the JW mindset transferring over to other issues in life. Take my mother for example. (I mean really, someone please take my mother!)
She was the one who first began studying with the JW's the year I was born and initiated the family into the JW organization. However, through the years she has continually spent many, many thousands of dollars on alternative medicines. Some are probably just over-priced herbs and tonics that don't do any harm. Others have been obviously quackery and she has been scammed out of many thousands over a lifetime. The problem is her. She is always looking for the quick fix, the miracle cure, that will solve all her problems without her actually having to do any work to take care of her health, like eating properly and exercising regularly.
She is also getting more and more fearful as she gets into old age, because she can't come to terms with aging and death. She just keeps spending more and more money on anti-aging miracles. She will die penniless and afraid. She also constantly feeds her mind on the news and true murder shows. Thats all she watches (besides home shopping network). She always has a horrible story to tell about how awful the world is. It completely validates her WTBTS viewpoint. I tell her that the reason those events make the news is because they are statistical anomalies. They get ratings because they are unusual. You won't hear about the billions of people every day, who went to work, took care of their families and did nice things to help each other, on the news.
When people refuse to look at facts and logic, there is always some type of emotional hook for them or payoff that is over-riding reason and is stronger than the human need for things to make rational sense. If you can discover what that is and address that issue, then you have a better chance of reaching them.
I look forward to hearing more from you.
